1G Sending Unit Studs
#418940
December 04, 2013 06:20 pm UTC
December 04, 2013 06:20 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,968 Caledon, Ontario, Canada
Bryan Lawrence
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That for sale thread is getting a little too busy and I think I am going to finally fix this properly so my tank will seal.
From what I can see there are 3 options to fix the tank (that are cost effective): 1) Weld in new bolts to replace the studs (doing with a fuell in the tank is stupid risky) 2) JB weld studs in (did this and there is always one that won't stay put) 3) replace studs with sealed rivnuts
I just thought of number 1 and have everything I need to do that, but not sure I am confident enough to seal up the tank so that I can accomplish this. I have been talking about doing number 3 for a while and I think this is the safest and most effective of the three. The problem with this is that most rivet tools are right angled which I don't think would let me work with the tank in the car.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#418952
December 04, 2013 09:15 pm UTC
December 04, 2013 09:15 pm UTC
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 60 Ottawa, Ontario
Chad Robertson
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Could you not fill the tank with water, and then weld? That would keep the fuel fumes away, and prevent heat buildup during the welding process, no?
Engine management junkie.
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#418964
December 04, 2013 10:30 pm UTC
December 04, 2013 10:30 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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Yeah that's what I had read Sal, but either way I don't feel comfortable with any vapors.
Mike although I would love to do that it just means there is more rusty things that I would be removing and I don't know what my timeline on something like that would be. The one alternative that I can think of is manually pump out the gas, then fill the tank with a bunch of water then drain all the water after welding and put the gas back in. To me that seems like way too much effort though.
We shall see though, I would love to weld it cause I know it would stay and I won't need anything, but I would need to create a device that would keep sparks out, maybe I will see if I can create something like that.
Paul, that sounds like a good idea to me, I would love to test it!My one concern is that you will be missing out on fuel in the tank because it would add extra height to the sending unit.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#418969
December 04, 2013 11:48 pm UTC
December 04, 2013 11:48 pm UTC
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,637 NiagaraFalls, ON
Paul Bratina
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I would love to test it!My one concern is that you will be missing out on fuel in the tank because it would add extra height to the sending unit.
You're correct, the overall height of the sending unit would increase by the thickness of the unit (plus gasket). In this case probably about 1/4". Actually, if you wanted to do us a favour, you could measure the gap between the top of your sending unit and the underside of the access panel thing. Now that I'm thinking that might be tough to measure but I guess the underside of the sheet metal surrounding the hole is measurable. This info is useful for figuring out how much room there is for fittings attached to the sending unit, etc. Thanks in advance.
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#418970
December 05, 2013 12:01 am UTC
December 05, 2013 12:01 am UTC
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,263 Niagara Falls, Ontario
Ziggy Dietrich
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Doesn't look like there is enough metal there to tap. We have been thinking about a solution for this problem, but the holdup at the moment is that our idea would require a custom rubber gasket, and not sure who would make those in small quantities at a reasonable price.
As for welding the gas tank, I always thought the proper way to weld it was to empty it and then run the exhaust gases into it from another engine. I think the idea was to have the tank full of carbon monoxide and push out all the oxygen.
"bluebird" worlds fastest scooter ridden by me "Whitebird" RIP
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Mike Eng]
#418973
December 05, 2013 12:59 am UTC
December 05, 2013 12:59 am UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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Is replacing it not an option? Not a cost effective one. I think nick has a good idea, but you would definitely need a way to hold it in place and that would be the difficult part.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#418986
December 05, 2013 02:53 am UTC
December 05, 2013 02:53 am UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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Yeah mine are slightly bigger, you don't want to drill the sending unit so you can't go too much bigger. I like John's idea, I might go see if I can find both of those.
Tyler I think that is a better option than just using the screws at it would stop it from spinning much better than normal nuts.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Mike Degli Angeli]
#418997
December 05, 2013 01:16 pm UTC
December 05, 2013 01:16 pm UTC
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
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Why not just unbolt the tank? Do it outside the car. Agreed. I would drop the tank and do it properly. Very easily done on a 1g, and it would be a great time to replace that rusty old filler neck. There is also a 24mm drain bolt at the bottom of the tank in case you guys didn't know. I'm not into hack jobs on DSM's. Do it once, do it right
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#419003
December 05, 2013 02:29 pm UTC
December 05, 2013 02:29 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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Ok I am going to give the rivnut option a try. Does anyone have a rivet gun/tool that I can borrow. As long as it doesn't look like this, it should work.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#419024
December 05, 2013 06:55 pm UTC
December 05, 2013 06:55 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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Good to know! I will go pick up some rivnuts and see if I can find the tool.
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#419081
December 06, 2013 05:47 pm UTC
December 06, 2013 05:47 pm UTC
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,669 Toronto, Ontario
Stephan Tanchak
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So the line is secured with a nice amount of zip ties for now, but here is how it is currently routed. (This is not my car, I just made the line in green where I placed mine) And it follows the OEM fuel line all the way back. The way I routed it, I just had enough hose to reach all the way back. First, I bent the sending unit back. Then, I drilled holes for the groud wire, low level light wire, fuel level wire and the pump power wire, soldered more wire onto each to extend them, fed them through the holes and then epoxied the holes shut. As per the studs, I drilled holes into the fuel tank and drilled out the broken nuts/bolts out of the sending unit, then; Put a bolt pointing upwards> thin nut holding it> the gasket> the sending unit> bolts on top to hold it down> tightened them. No fuel smell inside or outside the car as of now.
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#419083
December 06, 2013 05:50 pm UTC
December 06, 2013 05:50 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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Where did you get the thing nuts from? Any pics of your car?
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#419084
December 06, 2013 05:57 pm UTC
December 06, 2013 05:57 pm UTC
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,669 Toronto, Ontario
Stephan Tanchak
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I'll go snap a picture in a bit. Found the bolts and nuts in the basement. I can measure them though. Came close to having a perfect solution. Server mounting clips. Had a few in the basement as well, but they were too small unfortunately. There might be different sizes on ebay though.
1998 Eclipse GSX Spyder 11.5@124 AWD Talons: 1992, 1993, 1997, 1998
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#419609
December 17, 2013 04:58 am UTC
December 17, 2013 04:58 am UTC
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,669 Toronto, Ontario
Stephan Tanchak
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I should mention, I made absolute sure that the control arm is out of the way before I lowered the car. There's no rubbing or pinching of moving parts. Stuff rubbing or pinching is one of the things I am paranoid about.
1998 Eclipse GSX Spyder 11.5@124 AWD Talons: 1992, 1993, 1997, 1998
Team Big Turbo
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#419619
December 17, 2013 12:27 pm UTC
December 17, 2013 12:27 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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Thanks for posting! Nice work Stephan, got any more hardware you can send my way?
How come you didn't run it the stock way, on the other side of the control arm? Did you have any luck removing the stock lines?
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#419625
December 17, 2013 04:22 pm UTC
December 17, 2013 04:22 pm UTC
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,669 Toronto, Ontario
Stephan Tanchak
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Sure can. I will let you know next time I am near.
I was going to run it through the stock location, but after trying for a long time in the cold and snow, I decided I'll reroute it later in the spring.
Didn't remove the stock line yet, as it is one of a couple lines which are supporting the new fuel line.
1998 Eclipse GSX Spyder 11.5@124 AWD Talons: 1992, 1993, 1997, 1998
Team Big Turbo
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#419626
December 17, 2013 04:40 pm UTC
December 17, 2013 04:40 pm UTC
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Bryan Lawrence
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I was able to chop out all of my old line except for the stuff that runs between the firewall and the cover for the lower control arm, it's super tight in there, and the old lines are not very flexible.
Thanks man!
"Old Blue" 91 Talon TSi AWD "Super Enthusiast" 91 Talon TSi AWD Checkout DSMFAQ.com!
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Re: 1G Sending Unit Studs
[Re: Bryan Lawrence]
#420538
January 08, 2014 03:32 am UTC
January 08, 2014 03:32 am UTC
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,637 NiagaraFalls, ON
Paul Bratina
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There are lots of solutions to the problem of broken studs for the 1g AWD sending unit. For future reference, here's one of them: https://www.rtmracing.com/xcart/product.php?productid=18982&cat=0&page=0&featured=YThis certainly isn't the cheapest option, nor the easiest, but we feel it is a legimate one. For those keeping score at home, in my opinion, the BEST solution is to replace the tank with new, and second on the list is to remove the entire "stud ring" and weld in a new version of one. But short of those two solutions, we think this one ranks right up there.
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