That's a really good point Jay.

I'm sure Mr.OCD will report his wind tunnel results.

Sorry jay but that's just not making sense to me, at all

The ic blocks cold air flow to rad, and at high speeds your trying to say air will escape thru a duct that's being forced air thru it?

Really? Lol

Its not supposed to FORCE air into the rad, but rather allow MORE COLD AIR PAST the IC, which delivers HOT AIR to the radiator, and BLOCKS some flow as well.

You all realize theres rad fans pulling air thru the rad as well right?

You also realize my issue isnt getting enough air to the rad, but rather trying to get more cold air to the rad to help prevent heat soak, which is common when your IC is delivering baking hot air to the rad.

Geesh, how is it sofaking hard to see how this HELPS?

Screw all of u. I'm doing it, it's gonna work, and I like it.

Rob's right, that's what those ducts are for. It's the same principle as having a vented hood or a cowl. You are allowing either more cold air in or hot air out.

Rob, I think the question you were asking was not geared towards the benefits of the duct, but rather is it aesthetically pleasing and will it compliment your car or not.

Amirite??

Indeed.

Wow this thread blew up!

Thanks for the pic with two of them Bryan, now I can be certain that putting 2 on just looks like you gave your car one of those gay little mustaches.

I can't believe the functionality was ever in question. It's a hole. In front of the radiator. Come on people.

I still personally think they look off, but I know my opinion is biased by all the dickless morons in Guelph in the RSX or G35 daddy bought them with 29" rims and one of these things stuck on the front.

Rob, any plans to use some sheet metal to pull cold air from under the IC?

What would be cool to know is the before and after affects of installing it by watching your water temps using link.

But regardless, it will help. I'm not saying it's not going to.

I just think it's going to end up looking like this;

not at all if this works. Thats the point, to avoid turning my inner front bumber into a maze of fiber glass, sheet metal and junk.



Thats because your stupid

Lool



You asked for it!

Cool, keep us updated.

Ive seen the results.. We had a guy cut holes where you plan and drove around logging his results.. Then he fabbed in some duct work.. forcing all the air from the Ic thru only his rad..And it ran alot cooler!

he decided that the turbulance from the air going behind the IC affected the ability of both the rad and the IC. The diferant air pressures from differant entry points did not get along. The duct way allowed for more of a constant stream of air and was more effecient. He also said that the only orfice in the front of your car should be just 1 orfice for cooling and everthing else just caused drag.

I think your idea with the nostrols would work but you would have to do separate ducts for them. and dont bring outside air in behind the IC.. Keep it ducted directly to the Ic.

This guy who ran 11s in a 388hp saturn also said that with out a hole in the hood .. your IC wasnt working efficeiantly enough. Andthat was a bigger facter then frontal ducting.

Sorry bout the spelling .

Actually, you did pretty good bro!

A while back, Steve R. Posted a picture of how the chin spoiler affected positive air flow to the rad and that the air pressure created from it would escape through ducts at the top of the bumper rendering it a useless mod.

Drag is a possibility.

But at the end of the day, it is Rob's car to do whatever he wants. I still say 2 - 0. Although it reminds me of a Pontiac Grand Am lol.

I just think that with a little duct work .. he would get the same amount of cooling effect if not better and not have to put those holes in the front of a perfect car.

If yer really doing it for the extra rad air.. then try fabbing a evo bumper on there! I mean you already defaced the talon that it was.lol

So explain to me HOW a duct from one of the OTHER openings in the front of the bumper to behind my IC is ANY DIFFERENT!!! Your so full of contradiction it hurts my brain.

PROVE IT

Air from under the bumper is what we're talking about.

That works, but wow will it ever suck getting it all off :S

Pretty sure he's talking about all the air turbulence so there isn't a steady flow of air across everything.

Makes sense if true. You can push 6 120mm fans in your computer tower every which way from the bottom up and at the top, some pushing from the front and exiting out the back, but if there's too much turbulence, hot air is just being recycled within the case.

Best flow through is sometimes just a simple single fan at the top-rear of the case to pull cold air from the bottom-front of the case.

So let me get this straight, you are all convinced my car will be cooler with hot air passing thru the IC, to cool my rad, rather than a second opening with a duct pointing strait at the rad where the upper rad hose is........sure

Must be Monday.

Your car will for sure run cooler with the vent, but will it be "cooler"?

lol

I think it would work in a perfect world, but with all the turbulence and air being pushed every which way at high velocity it may not, especially if air from below is passing through between the IC and rad.

But if it is, then you don't even need the additional "cooling".
Right?

I almost did that mod rob! but Im starting to think I want to come up with something else a little cleaner. The duct almost goes the wrong direction, the air needs to be curved around back towards the middle

Im pretty sure your full of sh!t like Jay LOL!!

The air coming in from under the IC would be no differant. I woulsnt do that either. Jamie has aready lowered his engine temps by blocking off the air from under the IC. That I thought was comon aerodynamics. Air will move faster thru your rad if its forced.. and your bumper alows enough air thru its mouth that you can duct it into the rad. It may be hot.. but it wont be even close to being as hot as your rad.. so it will still be effective. differance is there will be more forced air volume from one area.. rather then forcing air thru you IC and then adding air pressure from another source. Making turbulance and killing efficiency.

Im not an engineer I cannot give you technicle numbers and variables...Ive give you experience. I could be wrong. But I seen it work. And I seen it work well And people do it all the time.

Jay's last post I didn't understand, but I get his latest post.

Makes sense.

Really.

I didn't sleep too well last night, but I think I'm right.

I did take a dump a few mins ago, so I'm running on empty right now.

I see 2 problems with this.

1: He cut holes, but did not create any form of volute/velocity to the rad. If you notice how those ducts are designed, they create velocity by narrowing in size.

2: This isn't a Saturn. You don't need to cut holes in your hood to maintain efficiency of your intercooler, come on now. All that does is allow radiant heat to escape from the engine bay.

Rob, I say do it. My setup has a 3.5" FMIC AND half my rad is blocked by my oil cooler, and I still maintain under 190 on the hottest day of the year, and I have no ducting. What I would do however is duct from those holes directly to the rad so you can separate the air pressures. You will already have a low pressure between your rad and your FMIC and those ducts are designed to create a high pressure zone just on the other side behind them. You may have turbulence issues. It's not like a fan creating a low pressure zone behind the rad and sucking the air in.

To be fair though, something I would consider is trying them out on a test bumper, just to be sure it's going to be worth cutting your current bumper up. You've put a lot of work into that car, and if you can find a cheap test bumper to do a comparison, you might benefit in the end. If it shows that it doesn't work as well as you'd hoped it would, you can always put your factory bumper back on.

Jay does have a point in the post above, if your intercooler was over 190 deg. F, you would have more issues than just ducting. The chances of heat soaking an intercooler of that size are minimal. You would have to be pushing upwards of 50psi and be doing it ALL THE TIME.

Your FMIC should be matched to your turbo size to work efficiently. Surface area comes into play here. I know you have got some serious brains between those ears Rob, and are almost inhumanly talented, however if you are pushing your intercooler beyond it's limits and are worried about extremely hot air going onto your rad, you would have to rethink your FMIC setup IMO.

So with that being said, all I would have to do is attach a separate shroud to the duct directly to the rad and problem with turbulence solved?



Dude Im bugging you

Yes.. technically .... Yay spell check!

Ive seen it done that way.. but you need the nostrils obviously. I don't believe the design of the nostrils will improve anything tho. Just allow air to enter that area and build pressure and be forced thru the rad... with out interrupting the IC air.

Then the IC air can build a continuous flow thru the IC and rad and easily escape thru the vented hood.

Oh wait no vented hood.. then the air will build heated pressure under the hood. Not drastic but hood vents would help a lot! How many production cars with stock fmic have solid hood? (besides Subies.. But real subie owners upgrade to fmics)

Saturns run hotter then DSMs when you throw a turbo on them.. Cause there not designed for it, so people who turbocharge saturns have to be creative.

Wow! The thread that wouldn't die. It's certainly entertaining.

Hmmmmm.... Well, ideally you want one inlet and one outlet to force air to travel through the area, which in this case is the engine bay.

Take an aircraft engine for example. An air cooled, piston engine.


I got distracted and forgot where I was going with this though....

As long as everything is ducted properly, you'll be golden.

I'm a partial fan. Are you doing it black or CF?

Rob that thing looks sick. I want one now. DO IT!!!

I also like the race car look though.

I know

Wow, there's a lot of hot air blowing around in this thread. Pun intended.

CF = <3

There's nothing better than functional CF!

I think that the front bumper looks great with the carbin fiber opening!
You wont benefit HUGE from it, but it will definitely allow some additional cool air to the radiator. There is no denying that.
As far as ducting goes, Without doing some serious ductwork I dont think its really worth it. There are other things that you can do to bring temps down easily.
Ill get around to posting some pictures of my setup, but Ive actually incorporated a boost triggered water sprayer into my setup with windshield washer nozzles located at a key hotspot in my radiator and another that sprays a good fan of mist over my whole intercooler when triggered. Water is free and the setup is really simple.

On a hot day, it really brings the temps down. Imagine the effect of adding water mist to all that warm summer air blowing into the bumper. I know its not ideal to get certain components wet, but I wasnt worried, Nothing was wet beyond the radiator. The heat eats it all up.

This is just one method of many to get the temps down though. Not many people do this, but I had good success with the system. I used an old GM washer reservoir and the pump that came mounted to it. Worked like a charm.

I think a good mod for you (if you havent done it already) is get rid of the hood gasket at the top of the hood along the windshield. This also brought my engine bay temps down.

Ducting is really cool! And it works really well when designed properly. I always see people ducting this and ducting that, but you also have to give air a route of escape to encourage airflow at speed. There is a reason people modify their rad support and tilt their rad and run a large duct from the backside of the rad and out a large hood vent. This is the best setup for getting air through the intercooler and radiator efficiently.
I think pulling that hood gasket would be a good start.


***********************************************************
As far as the intake pipe goes, I would recommend redesigning it like mine (if you have the room on your 2g)
-My intake pipe is a 4inch pipe that goes right where yours is located, but it then goes down into the bumper cavity, where bumper air is forced into the upside down 9x6 K&N filter.

I had my car on the dyno with a filter right on the compressor cover at one point. While the car was on the dyno, we swapped the filter for my custom cold air intake and the car made an additional 30awhp on a mustang dyno WITHOUT altering the tune!!!
Think about the gains I would see off the dyno and at highway speed !

The ONLY ducting Im doing is .....

-whatever the size of my IC is, will be sealed to the same size on the rad

-front carbon duct sealed to decent portion on rad

-my filter is getting a box.....Fed from the hole cut bigger that feeds from the inner fender. ......good e-fuckin-nough

Im not about to redisign my intake, its sealed and its not my concern.

end this sh!t already. Im doing it.

Stay tuned ........

Would love to see some progress pictures as you do this, something that is on my list of things to do as well and I could use some inspiration.

Hey Rob,
I'm going to be going in for tuning soon and can give you the temperature results from there, but for all the current driving I've done, the highest temperature I've seen was a 203*F spike for a split second. Maintains perfect at 200*F in all conditions (driving, idling..). I have a Fluidline rad, gates hoses, one FAL fan, one smaller Mishimoto fan, a Stant 14077 thermostat, turbo blanket, exhaust manifold blanket and the O2 housing and down pipe are wrapped. Also, I also have that A/C condenser and the inter cooler on front.

Do it. The duct will be sweet

Ever though of using that duct for brake cooling?

Your running two rads!? Stephan do you have pictures of your setup?

No hes not.........and this is my build thread



Not even for a second.



Its in motion