Weird clutch
#389671
November 29, 2012 10:20 pm UTC
November 29, 2012 10:20 pm UTC
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,304 Sudbury, Ontario
Kyle Guba
OP
Serious Member
|
OP
Serious Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,304
Sudbury, Ontario
|
When i really get on the gas and into higher RPMs, I notice my clutch pedal becomes soft and actually goes to the floor?? It does NOT start to slip at all, in fact, all 4 tires were spinning through third pretty good... . After you let off, the clutch pedal does come back and work normally. Ive had this happen throughout the summer. It has a twin disc in a dogbox tranny. Im convinced it's the dogbox doing it, but I have no idea. Anyone with ANY info, would be appreciated, thanks.
- 97 Mona Lisa Spyder AWD
|
|
|
Re: Weird clutch
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#389674
November 29, 2012 11:31 pm UTC
November 29, 2012 11:31 pm UTC
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
|
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
|
Kyle, I'm presuming you have checked the hydraulics. If they are ok, I'd start by checking the crank end play.
|
|
|
Re: Weird clutch
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#389678
November 30, 2012 12:11 am UTC
November 30, 2012 12:11 am UTC
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
|
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
|
I had a completely stock 1g over 10 years ago with severe crank walk that the clutch pedal would fall to the ground on left turns. The worst amount of end play I have seen was on Mike Degli's 1g when my brother owned it. From the clutch pedal falling to the ground on left hand turns, it turned into a severe vibration as the crank was digging into the mains. It still ran though. A twin disk only requires such a small amount of throw to disengage. With crank end play out of spec, the clutch won't slip at all. Instead of full disengagement you just move it over when you go to step on the clutch. Now with a dog box and a twin disk, it'll probably still shift like a champ but just make your clutch pedal go to the floor like what Kyle is describing. Of course it could be something else, but being a DSM I'd consider the worst case scenario first. If it is out of spec, but not enough to score the thrust surface, I'd drop the pan, toss in a new thrust bearing and align it proper. Been there, done that already I hope that is not the case though Kyle and it's something weird like a bad master or clutch. Checking the crank end play is just too easy to start with. Might as well rule that our first.
|
|
|
Re: Weird clutch
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#389682
November 30, 2012 12:34 am UTC
November 30, 2012 12:34 am UTC
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
|
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
|
Fork is the same, it just does not require a super full engagement like any other single disk setup. In other words if you went from a single disk ACT2600 setup to a twin disk without turning down the clutch pedal so you don't have maximum throw, you will damage the pressure plate, i.e. over extend the fingers.
That is one of the things I love about a twin disk setup. Your clutch pedal doesn't need to be cranked all the way out in order for it to disengege. With a single disk heavy ACT setup which requires you to put your foot through the floor board, a little bit of crank end play will cause it not to disengage at all. Throw in an OEM clutch setup and it will probably disengage where the ACT won't. Every clutch is different.
I have a feeling Kyle doesn't like this discussion anymore, lol.
|
|
|
Re: Weird clutch
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#389685
November 30, 2012 12:51 am UTC
November 30, 2012 12:51 am UTC
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
|
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
|
Well he doesn't mention any clutch disengagement issues, or if he has tried adjusting the clutch pedal out to compensate for it. I get your point though.
All else the same with no adjustment done to the master, the clutch will slowly start falling to the ground as he describes.
It has nothing to do with the tranny. The clutch is bolted to the engine, not the transmission.
|
|
|
Re: Weird clutch
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#389712
November 30, 2012 05:42 am UTC
November 30, 2012 05:42 am UTC
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,831 Moose Jaw SK / Cambridge ON
Johnny Larmond
Insane Member
|
Insane Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,831
Moose Jaw SK / Cambridge ON
|
Don't worry guys, I've got this one. WITCHCRAFT! Sorry, that's all I can contribute to this. I'm having a really hard time wrapping my head around this. Unless your clutch is heating up and expanding, thus forcing the pressure plate up and causing the peddle to go to the floor, I'm out of ideas. Also, doubt that would be the case in that short period of time.... Either way, just a thought....
'97 GSX - DD and running strong '99 GSX Spyder - Running strong '99 GS - zzzz.
PHP: 4
|
|
|
Re: Weird clutch
[Re: Johnny Larmond]
#389715
November 30, 2012 01:12 pm UTC
November 30, 2012 01:12 pm UTC
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
|
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
|
Unless your clutch is heating up and expanding, thus forcing the pressure plate up and causing the peddle to go to the floor, I'm out of ideas. I'm having a hard time trying to understand what your idea is.
|
|
|
Re: Weird clutch
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#389737
November 30, 2012 09:51 pm UTC
November 30, 2012 09:51 pm UTC
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
|
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
|
No point in trying to guess this anymore. Kyle, do you know how to check for endplay, or to even visually see if the crank is moving a lot?
|
|
|
Re: Weird clutch
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#389745
November 30, 2012 11:11 pm UTC
November 30, 2012 11:11 pm UTC
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,126 Toronto
Rob Cauduro
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
|
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,126
Toronto
|
No, you need a dial indicator, and a mag base.
Drop the t-case, down pipe, and oil pan. Then use a pry bar to push the crank all the way towards the tranny. Put the dial indicator on the crank pulley, set the dial to zero. Then pry the crank all the way to the pulley side, record your reading.
While your in there check the bottom of the pan for bearing.
|
|
|
Re: Weird clutch
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#389750
December 01, 2012 12:43 am UTC
December 01, 2012 12:43 am UTC
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,126 Toronto
Rob Cauduro
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
|
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,126
Toronto
|
.008 is the max, .002 is the min, it should even be fine up to .01 without any ill effect of usage until a rebuild is possible.
You could just pry on the pulley, but theres no way to tell your all the way to one side without doing it from inside the pan. The only thing to pry against is the belt cover, and thats not gonna get you an accurate reading.
EDIT, I guess you could step on the clutch a few times, then set the indicator to zero, then bash the balancer in to make it go opposite direction. But then you risk moving the indicator which wont give you a good reading.
Id take the pan off just to check for flakes anyways. I say do it proper, and KNOW your good.
Last edited by Rob Cauduro; December 01, 2012 12:46 am UTC.
|
|
|
Re: Weird clutch
[Re: Kyle Guba]
#389764
December 01, 2012 04:00 am UTC
December 01, 2012 04:00 am UTC
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398 Ajax, ON
Reza Mirza
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
|
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,398
Ajax, ON
|
Jack the car up and hook up a dial indicator on the crank pulley. Pry the crank over to the passenger side. Step on the clutch and measure the movement. I wouldn't even hook up the dial indicator and just eyeball it first. If you see it move a few mm's, you know its gone for sure. 5-10 minute deal, done. If you want to drop the pan, no need for a dial indicator. Pry crank over to one side with a prybar between the crank and inside the block. Pry back to the other side and use a feeler gauge between the crank thrust surface and bearing. Takes 2 seconds and gives an accurate reading. Here's a tip: When aligning a brand new thrust bearing on a new crank, if your on the low side like 0.002 , it's off and will start walking. High side of the spec means you got it aligned right
|
|
|
|
|