Ecmlink doesn't self tune for you. If you find yourself asking the question "what is better for tuning, chip or ecmlink?" , I would suggest just basic performance mods until you figure out how the ecu works and what ecmlink really does.

I've had a lot of guys ask me what is better, chip or ecmlink ? I think tuning is not for these guys, they are better off having their cars tuned conservatively by someone who knows what they are doing.

I've seen first posts from newbs on the ecmlink forums who just bought ecmlink and are clueless as to what to do with it. It definately helps to mod within your limits and knowledge too, otherwise your DSM turns into one of those 10 or 9 sec partouts that never even ran.

I ran a best of 10.7 on a dsmchip, but if your still wondering whats better ecmlink or chip, I would suggest you stay out of the boxing ring till you can figure it out

Agreed with the above. It helps to read the ECU Primer (google it), to understand the workings of the ECU.

You need to know why and how things work before you can understand what to change.

Old thread, but thought I'd bring it back.

Dilemma, I've read countless threads over at tuners and dsmtalk, etc., some sites I've never heard of.

I'm getting my car back up and hoping to pop in a 14B and run stock boost or a maximum of 15psi with an EVO8 fuel pump and nothing else.

Obviously thinking to save up for Link, but damn, gotta pay to play or is there a cheap, "okay", way to get a very basic tune?

NGK AFX is freakin' 250USD, then link and converting my non eprom ecu plus Link lite is 570USD.

Basically $1000 just to tune and log. HOLY SCHNIKE!

Anyone here still tune the old school way?

Logger and AFC?

I'm not planning to go very much past a 14B and 650cc injectors.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this stupid post, but I gotta ask you guys.

Yes there is a cheap way with a very basic tune. Its called a stock ECU with 450cc injectors! My wifes DSM is just as simple as that with a logger (which I don't even use for this car unless required) and small 16g @ 14psi. Fun and reliable.

Your just thinking too hard about it

That's the kind of answer I was looking for Reza, thanks!

I already have the 650 injectors.

I've read a little into it, but how feasible is it to have a modest tune on 650 injectors on an AFC that is good year round without having to mess with it all the time?

Assume I've already learned how to use it.

...I haven't, but I can learn.

Sell the 650's and buy some 450's for your goal, or a better goal is to get the car running first.

No point in trying to learn to tune a car that hasn't seen the road in a few years. I've seen cars slapped together that are supposedly "ready to tune", that I would not even bother driving for the matter. There is way more involved in getting a DSM to run mechanically proper and safely before you begin to tune. Tackle that first, get a car that runs and start actually driving the thing, before you start asking tuning questions. Get past the first challenge, don't take a back assward approach to it, haha.

I've seen way more HACKED DSM's now than ones that are actually ready to tune. Let's see you get a stockish DSM running in perfect mechanical shape, which you will find to be more of a fun task, than worrying about how to tune your 650's on a 14b car when it does eventually run... one day.....

These cars are cheap pieces of shitz. If you actually put your mind to it, you can have your car running in a matter of days. Way too many DSM's are just sitting in garages for years now, like the worthless piles of heap that they are, LOL. They are not Ferrari's, drive em!

My 2 cents

The 650s will work fine for a modest tune with a piggyback like an SAFC, MAF-T etc..

If you try to squeeze the most out of them at the track or dyno, it will be better to ditch the piggyback for ECMLink or whatever. That's an expensive proposition and there's no reason you can't have some fun while you build up those mods.

It's your choice to "mess with it all the time".. People with ECMLink still do that! It comes from gaining knowledge and having DSMer OCD, they just can't leave it well enough alone

I think it will be easier for him to find 450cc injectors and call it a day, than to try to make the 650's work with an AFC at like -40% across the board and wacky airflow/timing maps just to run a 14b at stockish boost levels.

This is like trying to reinvent the wheel with better angles

LOL

Well the way I am I guess I'm going to mess with it all the time, regardless of what I get.

I'm the type of fool that adjusts his seat EVERYTIME I get in a vehicle.

Depends on the thickness of clothing I'm wearing.

Really? So no point in me putting in the EVO8 fuel pump and 650 injectors for some 14B 18-20psi boost fun?

Well from 15psi max on a 14b in your first post to 20 psi now, yes you'll need something to tune with or tuning knowledge for the matter

You sure you don't plan on putting it up more, like 30 or 40 psi fun ?

I guess if you have decided to be tinkering with it all the time, you answered your own question

I must have missed that "15psi on a 14b".. Skip the 650s until you are ready with the fuel control for them. It could even be worthwhile to run a piggyback on the 450s (to learn tuning) and add a chip for the 650s later. Or by then maybe you'll have Link ready to go in.

You are thinking about it the wrong way.....

$1000 To have near full control and complete monitoring of your car's data/performance, be able to perform almost any modification to your car and take full control of it... That is a complete steal in the automotive world.

I would take that in a heart beat...
Trying to get a "tune" for my boosted volvo requires me to take a copy of my "tune"/ecu image then e-mail it away overseas where some nerd modifies it with THEIR software, emails it back then I flash the computer. No logging, no ability to do any tuning myself... all at the wonderful price of $1200-$1400. with a $75-$100 per hour for any other modifications that need to be done to it after that, (If I decide to add an intake, injectors, exhaust)

Us dsmers are lucky

you could always go with dsmap, it is a little more cost effective, but you will need to switch to sd (if i remember correctly)

Hrmm...understood.

Will have to start small.

BUT I want a 43252364 WHP daily driver that's as reliable as a Honda now! lol

Thanks guys, sound advice to ground my newbie ass.

If you want to be safe and have some more power without the headache, I also suggest a stock fuel system and 15 PSI on a 14B. You will notice a nice improvement over a T-25 at stock boost levels.

I would also suggest getting a wideband if you can. Right now, it will be a little useless in the fact that you can't adjust your tune to change the readings. However, you will get an idea of how things work better. And when it comes time to upgrade, it's one less thing you'll have to buy and install since you already have it

You do have an aftermarket boost gauge, right?

YessireeBob. I do.
I was looking at the Wideband that Reza/Kevin (it's like they're one entity, hehe) suggested by NGK.

The o2 sensors are supposed to last the longest.

I did however, for the first time, discover dsmtuners.com's marketplace.

LOTS of stuff on there. Maybe I could save a penny or two.

I have a narrowband from the previous user already on the car, but I am told it's useless.

Then again, my cousin says it's not COMPLETELY useless.

Gotta pay to play, I'll be picking up a wideband eventually.

It's not completely useless is true, it will tell you if your mix is perfect, around 14.1 I think(correct me if I am wrong). It does not accurately tell you how lean or how rich the mix is so it would be a nightmare to tune with.

It's only useful for closed-loop tuning, but even then a wideband is more accurate. You can use the narrowband to see what your ECU sees, and the only time the ECU uses that input is during closed-loop operation. As Ryan suggested: DSM ECU PRIMER!

Already on it.