New to the whole 2G Scene, so I have a few questions. I did some searching, really doesn't help to hit up US Forums because they don't get the weather I do.

-35 with the windchill up here the past few days. Today this boggled the hell out of me.

Went to fire it up this afternoon after sitting all night. Did NOT want to start for a good 2-3 minutes. Crank and crank and crank and crank and it tries to catch but stumbles, misses, pops, stumbles, dies.

Took me almost 5 minutes to try and start the car and when it did, the amount of smoke that came out the back was ungodly. It was thicker than pea soup, and was indicative of dumping a ton of fuel.

Once it fires up, no problems whatsoever.

So, the car is stock, not a bolt cracked on it. We are supposed to have some damned chilly nights up here and I don't want to send the stator in my starter through my bellhousing from cranking the living frack out of the car!

Plugs are NGK BR6ES gapped at 0.028. Wires are stockers, but doubt it's that.

I was thinking of an inline block heater in the lower hose, however that's a bit of a PITA at the moment.

So, what do you guys think? I know the coolant temp sensor can be an issue on these, I may order one from Ziggy, but should there be anything else I could check out?

Once she's caught, it runs/idles fine. No codes, nada, just a PITA to fire up on a cold-ass morning! Even after work (9 hour shift) it can be kind of hard.

Thank goodness for a good cranking battery. Alternator is being rebuilt on Monday.

Is it slow cranking? or just doesn't fire?

You could go to a slightly wider Gap, see if that helps.

PS Cars don't feel Windchill

Slow cranking (really cold) and doesn't fire. It tries to, but I have to crank and crank for it to catch.

Maybe a wider gap, I'll try that tomorrow.

If it's a bad coolant temp sensor it'll do that no matter what the temperature is but maybe the cold makes it worse.

It does gives the same symptoms though so it'd be worth it to check for sure.

I guess you don't have a logger? Would that not tell you what your coolant temp sensor is seeing?

No logger for the 2G, I don't have the cable.

If it's not working properly, you'll get readings of -40

I think its just the cold ass days. My car is being all gay like that to, just no where near as bad. Tranny likes to not shift and reverse, forget about that.

This sounds very similar to my problem. My motor would crank slowly and not catch at all sometimes, but when it finally started, it was always perfect. No codes were thrown either.

The problem was due to a vacuum hose that slipped off the EGR solenoid. (The other end was on the throttle body). It's probably been a couple of weeks now since I reconnected the line and the problem has never re-occurred.

New battery im assuming?

If it is... ignore what ive said .

Yeah, bought it the day I bought the car.

Try some 5 or 0W 30 Oil?

If it's dumping fuel you could try the old-school pedal to the metal while cranking.

Temp. sensor on the thermostat is the first place I would look since it is known to cause a rich condition.

Well, after 5 minutes of cranking I'm sure the car WOULD have a lot of unused fuel in the cylinders to burn off...

Could it be something with your fuel lines, Ryan? Bad gas or frozen up lines?

No, nothing with the fuel lines, however, this does bring up another point.


250kms on a tank of gas in town? WHAT THE HELL MAN!?

Either my gas gauge is broken, or something is hella messed.

I do a lot of in town driving, but I should be getting better fuel mileage than this, shouldn't I?

I wonder if this has anything to do with my hard-to-cold-start issue.

Or it's probably just because it's automatic....

I only get 250-300 with in town driving and mine is a 5 speed. Me thinks something is amiss and it's nowhere near as cold as it is there

If you're getting less than 400km on a tank, there's a problem.
Period.

boost leaks
exhaust leaks
bad O2 sensor
coolant temp sensor
fuel pressure regulator
injectors

Could be the gauge though, Ryan. Was it filled to the top? See how much you can get back in.

Well, by fuel lines I mean that one could be frozen or clogged up by 'thickening' or whatnot, and this could affect the whole fuel system.

You also could have some sort of restriction in your intake/exhaust stream.

Further, a blocked fuel return line is going to make it run very rich off boost.

I dont know if 1G's are like this but I know with my 2G, once my gas needle hits empty there is still like 10 to 15 liters of fuel in the tank.

^^^
It's the AWDs that have the problem, due to the baffle in the tank (you really have two gas tanks under a certain level).
I think 2Gs are especially bad for it.

If you didn't measure your gas comsumption in "per tank"s you'd already know the answer to this.

For comparison, I get 544320 rods to the hogshead.

^^^
27 MPG? That's pretty good..
I only get about 362880 rods

Doesn't matter how you look at it, all I know is I fill it up, 250-300kms later (in town), my tank is on empty.

I'll have to run a boost leak test and see what's going on.

So, when you fill it up, how much are you putting in?
Is it more than 55L?

Well, last night, it was probably 1/16th of a tank left @236kms on the trip meter. I put 41L in.

Anyone else have gas gauge issues?

Well, your tank is 65L AFAIK, so you still had 24L to burn!
That's another 140KM.

375 is still low but that can easily be a boost leak.

Search it out, the gauge is a pretty common problem.

I thought the gauge was a common problem. I wonder if the gas light works.

Road trip tomorrow to the inlaws!!! Let's find out.

Sounds like a CTS. Check over your wires as they tend to fray and crack (even on a 2G... it is > 10 years old now).

When my gas gauge is on the line of E, I fill up and its around 43 to 49L. I need to make myself a boost leak tester as well.

Both my 2Gs would have plenty of fuel left on empty. It's a 60 liter tank, so just keep an eye on your mileage on a tank by tank basis. You'll get used to just how much gas you actually have left if you reset your trip meter every fill up.

Your problem sounds alot like the fuel is thickening up. Have you tried some gas line anti-freeze? My first 2G would do that on occasion.... the second one just has a weak starter some it sometimes takes quite a bit longer to get it to turn over.

Btw, holding the pedal to the floor without DSMLink will probably flood it, no? Link added that tidbit where it would cut off fuel when you put the pedal to the floor.

The first 2G would get between 200-300km a fill (about 45 liters) in town (let it idle alot to warm up and no emmisions). The second one between 450-550km highway miles.

Haha, I didn't think anyone would do the math! That's my highway mileage, obviously not city mileage.

I agree that it could be the coolant temp sensor, or a bad intake leak. Also the TPS (idle switch) on the 2Gs was often horribly misadjusted from the factory so you could check that, but I wouldn't think it would cause flooding that badly.

The only time I had similar problem, it was because the air filter area of my car was completely packed with snow so no air was getting in!

Someone mentioned the "foot to the floor" trick which has always worked well for me. Does that somehow change the amount of fuel that the ECU dumps in on startup?

And yes, it's a 60L tank. The 2G AWD fuel gauges are all wildly inaccurate. Some people have used a potentiometer to "tune" the gauge to be a little closer. The light is usually pretty accurate though.

In 3 years I owned my Talon, I never got more than 450 kms to the tank.

98% of the time, I would get 300-320 kms/tank.

I do nearly 100% city driving, and the car was bone stock with absolutely no boost leaks for 2 out of those 3 years.

My 1g/2g is about the same, Grant.

Right now I'm in between the empty line and the first 'tick' and I am at 305 kms.

Well there are only two possibilities if you're getting such low mileage..
You're either not actually using all of the gas, or you're wasting a lot of it.

Or maybe your gas tank got crushed on a boulder, or there's a football inside it

I'm almost on empty right now, I'm not going to be out of the city for the next day or two, so I'll drive it till the gas light comes on, see what my KM/Tank is then.

I'm not a fan of putting additives in my gas, including gas line anti-freeze. I run my car daily, so I doubt it's freezing in the lines. There is no water in my tank AFAIK.

I am a BIG believer in gas line antifreeze. If you buy gas from a station that doesn't keep it's tanks full, and gets condensation into their tanks, and you buy at just the wrong time, you can get more water than gas...

I have seen it happen with my bike club where we all pulled in and gassed up, and one guy used the pump around the corner..half a mile down the road, his bike quit, and he had a tank full of water! Got most of the water out, a few containers of gas line anti freeze, and he was going again!

Gas line anti freeze can only HELP....it CAN'T do any harm as far as I know..

He's right, Ryan. I'm with you on the additives. But Gas antifreeze is mostly inert. It has to be.

On a fuel-injected car, Jeff, I'm pretty sure the 'foot to the floor' thing would only increase the amount of air available by opening the butterfly in the TB. The ECU should limit the injectors to 'start-up' mode.

They say in the winter time you should not let your tank get under half full. That is a good way to get condensation (WATER) into your tank!

I am also pretty sure the "foot to the floor" thing works on fuel injected cars. If you are flooding, you WANT more air to dilute the gas..