Re: e-test tuning
#177037
June 26, 2006 04:33 am UTC
June 26, 2006 04:33 am UTC
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,211 Calgary, AB
Rafael Pimentel III
Serious Member
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Serious Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,211
Calgary, AB
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Running rich, boost leak, EGR , Cat, faulty rings, faulty valve seals, etc
You can narrow it down with some testing BUT if it passed, I wouldn't pay much attention to the last two.
Worst DSM'er Ever, Haven't had a DSM for 6 years.
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Re: e-test tuning
#177038
June 26, 2006 01:19 pm UTC
June 26, 2006 01:19 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,447 Onurmomstitties
Mike Jackson
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,447
Onurmomstitties
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For $100 I could have just bought an illegal e-test that may or may not have been a conditional pass. Instead for $20 more I passed legally, I have a legit e-test that will cover me for the next 2 and a half years, my car is polluting far less and I learned a great deal over the process. I can also brag that I have personally tuned my stand alone to be capable of running 11s and still pass etest. $20 well spent I think .
1998 AWD 12.1@122 421whp -SOLD Duck Dodgers = EPIC FAILZ!
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Re: e-test tuning
#177039
June 26, 2006 05:48 pm UTC
June 26, 2006 05:48 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 4,971 Beamsville, Ont, Canada
Steve Kinnaird
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 4,971
Beamsville, Ont, Canada
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Originally posted by Amin Ahmadi: Tim,
while what you said is very true, it is going to be void if Mike changes his tuning at all. If he never changes the setup and keeps the current tuning completely intact, then yeah, otherwise the etest is in reality worthless and not proper per se.
Not true. Closed loop, and open loop tuning can be done ENTIRELY seperately.
Now, I'll have all kinds of time to talk about DSMs, because I won't be busy fixing mine!
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Re: e-test tuning
[Re: Steve Kinnaird]
#252478
January 08, 2008 04:36 pm UTC
January 08, 2008 04:36 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 4,971 Beamsville, Ont, Canada
Steve Kinnaird
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 4,971
Beamsville, Ont, Canada
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I found this thread helpful, so just to add to Mike's contributions here's what I've recently gone through:
Pertinent mods:
750cc injectors, MAF-T set up as a 2G MAF. 264 regrinds Compression is at the service limit in cylinders #1, and 2. (rings) which I'm sure doesn't help. All fuel/MAF mods are compensated for in the chip. The MAFT is there to translate, not tune.
Before the first test, I changed my plugs to fresh BPR6ES.
Test 1:
I just wanted a "baseline" to see where I was, so I made a mostly stock chip with the following: 870cc injectors (thought leaning it out would help me), idle at 1050rpm, timing locked at 6* at idle.
Results:
2500 RPM: Hc= 96 CO = 0.89 pass idle : Hc = 426 CO = 0.96 (Fail HCs.. limit is 200)
I could hear it missing at idle, and the idle fuel trim was pegged at 139.
So, I richened the idle up a bit (brought the fuel trim back to ~100) and raised the idle another 100 rpm. (1150 now). I also did an oil change. It was due anyway, and from what I've read.. it helps.
Went back and test number 2:
2500rpm : HC = 79 CO = 0.69 (pass) idle : HC = 237 CO = 0.82 (Almost!!)
So, fair enough. Time to put a cat on it and go back. (The previous 2 tests were with no cat.)
In between test number 2 and 3 the weather changed substantially from -8*C to +13*C. (I mention this because of what happened next:)
After adding the cat my low fuel trim pegged at 139 again, and I could hear a slight miss. I'm not sure if this is something to do with changing the exhaust, or with the weather (how accurate does the MAFT measure/apply temp changes??) Decided to give it a shot anyway (I'm SURE the cat will more than take care of it, right?)
Test 3:
2500RPM: HC = 96 (higher than with no cat?) CO = 0.19 pass idle : HC = 198 (WOW! talk about JUST making it) CO = 0.13 pass
So, from what I can tell: 1) let the ECU do it's thing. It seems to be good at it (HC difference between test 1 and 2 at idle) 2) get your idle as high as you can without going over 1250. FWIW: the test machine, showed my idle as 1154. My tach agreed with this. Perhaps Mike's tach needle was off, and not the test machine?
It should also be noted that due to some boost control issues, I couldn't "beat on it" on the way to the test. What I did do was cruise along the highway at 4000rpm for abour 10-15 minutes before the test.
Now, I'll have all kinds of time to talk about DSMs, because I won't be busy fixing mine!
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Re: e-test tuning
[Re: Steve Kinnaird]
#254639
January 28, 2008 10:52 pm UTC
January 28, 2008 10:52 pm UTC
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 88 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Tim Eagles
Regular Member
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Regular Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 88
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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I'll add in what I had to do to get my 4G61T setup to pass emissions back a couple of years ago - change my catalytic converter. A 4G61T does not share the same timing maps per se, but it shares the same architecture, had many 1G exhaust parts installed at the time, and will be running at the low part of the timing maps and out of boost just like a 2.0L would . I converted the whole car back to stock parts from mostly 1G components (14b with ported 02 housing stayed) and fuel control, and even had redone the HG and cleaned up the head completely, so as to know what I was starting with. Compression was good enough to not worry about, but the smell out the tailpipe had me worried all the same. EGR was hooked up and was confirmed working as it should. Only problem I thought the motor had was low vacuum, it sat around <15 in/Hg at warm idle. My test thread at 4g61t.org complete with readings, 4G63T setups should be similar in full stock form: http://forum.4g61t.org/viewtopic.php?t=17247 So with stock ECU, MAF, CAMs, but an aftermarket 2.5" catalytic installed by the PO, I still failed miserably. Fuel which was ~1 year old 94 Sunoco octane, and the next test showed that new fuel did nothing to change things either. So, I began to contemplate what would bring down all 3 tested emissions but only after reading through the 90 DSM Tech Manual did I find, that the DSM catalytics are designed to reduce all 3 emissions, in combination with EGR working properly too. So the hunt was on for a 3 WAY CATALYTIC CONVERTER with or without the pipe off the side that remains plugged to this day (it only gets utilised on air pump equipped vehicles anyways). $79 plus taxes later, I had a Flowmaster 2.5" high flow aftermarket catalytic (universal) ready to install. Ran another E-test with my cat welded at the front (so as to not turn it into an afterburner undervacuum circumstances), clamped at the back, and a weld where my muffler inlet was letting go from age, the car passed with flying colors! Morale of the story, install the EGR and catalytic you removed, and or play with your timing and fuel, but be aware that a low function catalytic will not let you pass no matter how hot it is, nor what you do with the fuel system. You will take your spark, timing, and fuel systems out the proper range of control (misfires, etc) because you can't make up for a the work a properly functioning catalytic will do at reducing/converting your carbon dioxide, NOx, and Hydro Carbons. P.S. I spent $750 dollars CDN, to do this the legal way and to know for myself what it takes to get a DSM style motor combo to pass E-test properly. I have a baby boy that will inevitably sit in the back of my car, and I would be doing him and the world an injustice by filling him full of exhaust fumes. Since I performed this experiment, I have become an E-tester on top of my other duties as a technician, at the same dealership at which my car passed. The world works in strange ways, but this doesn't have to apply to you!
Last edited by Tim Eagles; January 28, 2008 10:57 pm UTC.
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Re: e-test tuning
[Re: Tim Eagles]
#254693
January 29, 2008 04:24 am UTC
January 29, 2008 04:24 am UTC
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Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 4,971 Beamsville, Ont, Canada
Steve Kinnaird
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 4,971
Beamsville, Ont, Canada
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It's funny how having kids will get you to pass your e-test, isn't it? Just as a small note: When I was having my 3" cat installed, the exhaust shop I had it done at mentioned, that he had more than a couple of people fail with 3" cats, but passed with 2.5" cats once they switched. (Both were new).
Not sure how valid a statement it is, or how true.. just something to ponder.
Now, I'll have all kinds of time to talk about DSMs, because I won't be busy fixing mine!
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Re: e-test tuning
[Re: Steve Kinnaird]
#254751
January 29, 2008 03:49 pm UTC
January 29, 2008 03:49 pm UTC
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 88 Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Tim Eagles
Regular Member
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Regular Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 88
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Dilution rate would be the only thing I can think of that would move the maximum values up or down proportionately with the corresponding change in dilution registered by the sniffer at the tailpipe. I'm not up on my flow dynamics but maybe just the simple installation of a slight bottleneck can help in a small way to register better numbers with an otherwise stock or modified system that is left untouched, save for the catalytic. That's good info about the catalytics all the same Steve, I just hope the cars were not changed other than the catalytics to make the comparison more than fair.
POINT OF NOTE FOR NEW CATALYTIC CONVERTERS - They have a break-in period where they actually season and are supposed to convert more emissions in/out to lower numbers. This number can very from 100-500 KM's of driving but it is usually stated in the paperwork you receive with the new product. It may help you, and other than burning gas you would otherwise use in your daily travels, it's a little more piece of mind.
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Re: e-test tuning
[Re: Tim Eagles]
#254827
January 30, 2008 03:21 am UTC
January 30, 2008 03:21 am UTC
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Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 4,971 Beamsville, Ont, Canada
Steve Kinnaird
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 4,971
Beamsville, Ont, Canada
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When I went for the test with the new cat, it had about 20kms of driving on it. I had NO idea about the break-in period.
Now, I'll have all kinds of time to talk about DSMs, because I won't be busy fixing mine!
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Re: e-test tuning
[Re: Steve Kinnaird]
#263508
April 25, 2008 01:38 pm UTC
April 25, 2008 01:38 pm UTC
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,447 Onurmomstitties
Mike Jackson
OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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OP
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 6,447
Onurmomstitties
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I just got another etest with the same setup and this time passed with even better numbers.
1998 AWD 12.1@122 421whp -SOLD Duck Dodgers = EPIC FAILZ!
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Re: e-test tuning
[Re: Mike Jackson]
#326327
March 16, 2010 07:34 pm UTC
March 16, 2010 07:34 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 4,971 Beamsville, Ont, Canada
Steve Kinnaird
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 4,971
Beamsville, Ont, Canada
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My latest installment:
After that last test a couple years ago, I decided to rebuild the engine, and found: some cracked ring lands, and a disconnected vacuum line that probably didn't help my last readings any.
On the new (about 2000 or less kms) rebuild today, I let the ECU do it's thing for the A/F ratio, pulled 7* of timing at idle (idle at 1175) and at 2500 rpm.
Todays results:
2500 RPM: HC 68 (limit 200) CO 0.65 (limit 1.00) idle : HC 125 (limit 200) CO 0.70 (limit 1.00)
I'm good with that!
Now, I'll have all kinds of time to talk about DSMs, because I won't be busy fixing mine!
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Re: e-test tuning
[Re: Steve Kinnaird]
#326448
March 18, 2010 02:19 am UTC
March 18, 2010 02:19 am UTC
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 152 Kingston ON
wade harrison
Regular Member
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Regular Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 152
Kingston ON
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Good deal! Did you rebuild with forged or stock parts? and what caused the cracked ringlands, excessive boost?
89 Colt 4g63t
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Re: e-test tuning
[Re: wade harrison]
#326457
March 18, 2010 12:25 pm UTC
March 18, 2010 12:25 pm UTC
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Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 4,971 Beamsville, Ont, Canada
Steve Kinnaird
Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
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Senior Member, with Far TOO Much Time on Their Hands
Joined: Jan 1970
Posts: 4,971
Beamsville, Ont, Canada
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Stock parts. I'm guessing it was knock that took out the ring lands.
The bearings in it were in pretty rough shape as well. I don't REALLY know the entire history of the prior engine. I know I beat on it pretty good, but no clue what happened to it before I put it in.
Now, I'll have all kinds of time to talk about DSMs, because I won't be busy fixing mine!
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