WARNING: Wall of text.

I want a full refund.
Let's see what Helder says after reading this.
Am I wrong to want a refund?

Be forewarned - I wanted the full story included in this post. For those of you who dont want to read it all, you can skip to my second-to-last paragraph, which is the conclusion. Maybe your interest will be peaked and you'll read the whole message afterwards.

Seriously though, you know what I hate?
Buying something from someone that isn't at all as described. Better yet, having your PM's ignored or deleted without being read when you try to tell them what's up. I guess it's a good thing I have the board as a reference because I also posted in several threads about this issue hoping to get it resolved.

Let's start from the beginning. Here's an excerpt from Helder Dapont's "parts ...." thread in the Wanted to Sell section:



Sweet, so I expect to receive a JDM EPROM ECU, which should have only required a USDM EPROM chip installed to be compatible with my 1G Talon TSi AWD after working out payment details to send $115 to Helder in exchange for said ECU. What I got was something completely different - the ECU is from a 91-92 GVR4! The day I received the item in the mail, I sent Helder a PM telling him what's up. Helder never replied to my PM. Either he never received it, it was deleted by accident or it was deleted without being read because he was not listed as a participant in the message and it was unread by Helder until the day I deleted it from my messages.

As an alternative, I asked the board members for some input to see if this was an easy fix in order to ensure I wasn't making a mountain out of a mole hill:

Excerpt from my "Upgrade time!" thread:


Reza Mirza was nice enough to try and help me out by pointing me in the right direction, as can be seen in his response in that same "Upgrade time!" thread:


So I checked it out and it looked possible. I'm no expert, so I proceeded to contact several local specialists to see about having this ECU converted. Their general response was that they did not want to deal with it because it involved more than just jumpers. I was referred to different shops around town and, having all suggested that I contact ECM Tuning to see what could be done, I did so by e-mail. The long story short is that this would be "a real PITA" and there are parts which they "really don't want to get into too much".

In the meantime, I posted a response in Jason Liu's "Helder Dapont - BAD GUY!!" thread 9 days after not receiving a response to my PM to Helder telling him of the situation and I still thought the ECU could be easily converted:



Time went by and still no reply from Helder. 19 days after receiving the item, I posted another response in Ziggy Dietrich's "Helder Dapont - BAD GUY" thread, and as you can tell from my tone, I am getting more displeased as time goes on:


Fast-forward to yesterday, November 11, 2008. Bear in mind that my father was in an accident on June 6th of this year, before I even received the ECU from Helder, which should help paint a pciture of my priorities in the following months. I contacted Helder by PM, titled "JDM EPROM ECU":


To my surprise, I finally receive a response despite his obvious presence on the board in the past months:




In conclusion, don't make people believe you're selling one thing and send them something else. I bent over backwards trying to get this thing to work with my car and I even stood up for you for a while, as can be seen above. I even went out of my way and tried to get this ECU to work with my car by contacting local specialists and the creators of DSMLink, ECM Tuning. None of them are willing to make this modification because it's literally a one-off and would cost me more than double what I paid for this item - minimum! It's not a matter of me returning a part that I don't need but rather returning a part that I CAN'T USE. This ECU hasn't been used at all since I have received it - the only thing I've done was take pictures for reference in case the specialists needed them.

Shall we work this out in private, Helder, or shall we let the board members tell us what's up? Wait, I've tried working it out with you in private and went ignored for months only to receive a reply when you deemed me worthy of your time. I'm sure the board members have more than enough information now to make up their own minds about you, forget about what other people have posted.

From the code that you posted MD165808 and the site that you linked to, it says that the ecu is in fact a JDM ECU.

MD165808 91-92 GVR4 E39A JDM RS J-Spec Single Board. Eprom

I wasn't aware that Japan had Talon's. I assumed all our JDM stuff was from GVR4s/EVOs.

I'm not sure if I'm following..... Helder sold you the ECU under the false pretenses that it was a USDM eprom ecu? I can understand your frustration. But if he sold it to you as a JDM eprom ecu, I don't see why he's at fault. You should've done your research prior to buying.

I believe JDM had Mitusbishi Eclipses' did they not?

They do have Mitsubishi Eclipses... At least I thought they did. I was under the impression that I was buying a JDM EPROM ECU for a 1G Turbo AWD, hence my very first question to Helder in his WTS thread and his answer confirmed this belief. I was also aware that, were that the case, I'd have to worry about a USDM EPROM chip being installed and possibly swapping two wires with one another. Seeing as this is a T/E/L board, I never thought to ask if it was for any other variant of DSM because it never occured to me that it might be.

I never thought to ask for a model number at the time, but I sure have learned that lesson. He sold it to me knowing very well that I own a 1990 turbocharged all-wheel drive Eagle Talon, as can and could be seen in my signature since I've owned the car, as well as through my very clear and concise initial inquiry. The item was described under false pretenses when he answered my very first question. This is in absolutely no way any fault of my own and if Helder KNEW this was for a GVR4, it should definitely have been said instead of sold to an unsuspecting buyer.

Why the hell would I buy an ECU I can never use?

The Mitsubishi Eclipse is a four-seat sports coupe that has been in production since 1989 for left hand drive markets including the United States, Canada, and Taiwan.

No JDM DSMs. I knew all our JDM stuff was from GVR-4s/EVOs

Well, there ya go! I learned something today.

The source makes no difference at this point. I don't own either a GVR4 or an EVO. Before you say it, sure he could have answered honestly in saying "yes it is .." in response to my first quetsion, but only by omitting to write the rest of that thought. It should have looked like "Yes, it's from a 1G turbo AWD GVR4" and I would have thought twice. Make sense?

You asked Helder "Helder, do you know if the JDM EPROM ECU from a 1G manual transmission turbo?"

He didn't lie when he said "yes it is ..."



IMO, Its up to you as the consumer to educate yourself upon a product before making a purchase.

check this site out.
http://simon.chi.il.us/ECU/ECUID.html

You're right, Kevin, but it wasn't the whole truth either, which is why I looked it up immediately when I received the ECU and had the part number at my disposal. I contacted Helder right away to lte him know that this was not at ll what I had expected and never heard a word from him. I even asked members of the board to see if I could get it to work with my car that very day. All of this is in my first post in this thread.

I may not have educated myself before purchasing the ECU, but I sure as hell did try to get my money back in a timely manner once I realized this was not at all what I thought it was. It goes without saying that I will definitely be looking up the details of anything I purchase in the future. I just thought I could confide in a trustworthy member of this board when asking to buy an item for my Talon. I didn't expect some shady, dodgy business like this appears to be, especially from someone who came so highly praised by the DSM community.

If Helder's reputation isn't worth giving me back my cash that's fine. Let the board be aware.

According to this site, Paul, the MD165808 is a JDM RS, not AWD?

I'm not really sure what the Rs JDM version was.

All GVR4s are awd

RS is Rallyspec.
They had a closer geared transmission.
I think the hoods were different, a lot of guys talked about and wanted RS hoods.

There may be more but I forget.

I sorta stopped looking into them when I realized that It wasn't fees-able for a college student to be wondering into the states trying to find one and bringing it back.


What is so bad about the evo/galant ecu's?

Can't you throw in some yellow tops, not hook up the cyclone if you don't have it, and call it a day?
Or since its an eprom, just have a chip made for it?

Or is there a lot more to it?
enlighten me

Michael you brought up a good point

the JDM ECU uses the egr pin to control the cyclone butterfly, so you can pretty much have a functioning cyclone intake w/ that ecu

You would still need the JDM Cannister though, wouldnt you..

hmmmm..... This has me thinking... Now I have to Search, AND Read.

In response to Michael's valid question, which I actually asked several of the local specialty shops and even ECM Tuning, there is in fact more than just the jumpers and the cyclone intake manifold issue. I'm seriously not an expert, nor would I consider my understanding to be in-depth, but the experts themselves don't want to try this conversion! I know for sure that there's something with the ignition circuit from what I recall them telling me, among other issues.

I just wasn't expecting any of this, nor would I have bought this ECU if I wasn't sure I could get it to actually work. It would be a different story if I was aware of what was in store for me when buying this thing from Helder.

BTW, I have a Magnus SMIM, no need for a cyclone.

I agree with Gates, and he is not the only person Helder has done this to. Maybe he didn't actually LIE, as Kevin pointed out, but he also didn't tell the whole truth....and at that time, Helder DID have a good reputation on this board, and it is not surprising someone would have trusted him...Hell, even I did back then...

So Gates might have "done his research" and what would he have found? At that time, he would have found "Helder is some kind of DSM god, no way would he screw me". I say he DID his research!

Helder has made it quite clear through his actions that his reputation is worth a lot LESS than $115.

Gates, I think you have to take this loss as a learning experience. It is actually not that expensive for a good lesson.

However, anyone who STILL chooses to do business with this clown Helder these days, I have ZERO sympathy for..

Let me clear a few things up.

Japan had no eclipses! only GVR4's and Evo's

The Gvr4 "RS" version was the rally spec GVR4 and it came with the Yellow top injectors and Big 16g in 1991-1993.

I have the same ecu sitting in my garage also and it came with my JDM engine.

I just can't believe that someone would be willing to ruin their name for $115. When selling an ecu the seller is also resposible for knowing what he is selling. This is willful ignorance on Helders part.

If you still need the proper ecu I have a spare one from a 1990 AWD.

Folks, before posting here please review the rules of this forum:

Well so far I'd consider everything posted in this thread to be related knowledge since it deals directly with the unit I purchased and shows how anyone could have made the same mistake as I. This really paints a picture of Helder's character. Willful ignorance or potentially willful omittance - either way, I am now out $115. Whether he knew exactly what he was selling or not, he advertised it as something that would plug and play into our cars with nothing but a chip in his wanted to sell post! That's definitely not the case at all.

Either way, I don't think it's wrong that I ask him for a full refund. I doubt I'll ever get it, but I wanted to show the entire DSM Canada community that this guy should NOT be trusted.

I don't care how good he is with T/E/L's and it doesn't matter how fast he can do his work or if he's your friend. Helder's actions (or inaction) during this transaction speak louder than words.

I'd also like to say that if he ever DOES return my money, I will post an update saying so in this thread.

boo...

My PM now clearly shows that Helder has read it - Unread by: none

Still no reply, and all he can say for himself is "boo..." I wonder if he was trying to scare me or maybe he feels so bad about the mixup that he's crying?

Or, as I suspect, he doesn't give a sh!t. To him, $115. is worth more than his reputation. Like I said, anyone who still chooses to do business with him, I have ZERO sympathy for..

Yep not the first time someone has had an issue with him, or a product.

Unfortunately for the current round of victims Helder was removed from the board, and after a bunch of lobbying from a few of his "buddies" with the promise that he has changed etc, he was granted readmission to the forums, and it seems like his interest to come back was to make a few bucks and move on again.

Maybe his buddies should stand up and help out his latest round of victims, you guys vouched for him, maybe now at this point you should as a group now go to Helder, like you came to the Admin and get him to make things right.

And I was one of those guy Tim. To be honest I am very dissapinted he would do this. For the most part my dealings with him have always been good but lately I have been growing tired of his shananigans. I pm and called him requesting for my propane heater back that's been in his garage since last year and I never received a reply. I tried contacting him a few days ago letting him know that Lance was looking for him as he needed help to get his car running right. I passed on his name in good faith and neither I or Lance ever got a response back.

Some can say that all I need to do is drop by his place, knock on the door and get my stuff back and to those I say they are right but it's still not the point. Don't ignore someone and that is clearly what is going on here, not only me but other members such as Gates.

I will continue to speak him as he never really did anything to make me decide otherwise but I think I'm going to reconsider dealing with him going forward.

I wsa also one of the ones who supported him, and now regret doing so. I am not asking anyone to cover my losses, though, I will consider it a learning experience.

I think the whole purpose of threads is to warn FUTURE possible victims to beware, and that is being done

EDIT: changed my mind about sharing personal info

Tim, Is it possible to get a list of those that supported re-instatement for Helder?

I went to visit him today, and now he denies owing me what he does. To make a long story short, back when all the problems with him and I happened, there was another good, trusted member of this board who apparently owed Helder some money, and Helder told that person to just pay me instead of him when they got the money. Although it was wrong of him to push his problems collecting onto me that way, I would rather be owed by someone trustworthy and know I will collect eventually. NOW that person is telling me Helder screwed them also, and they don't owe him anymore, therefore they are not paying Helder's bill with me. I am back to square one.

Tim, you are absolutely right....all those that supported re-instatement should as a group go to Helder and get him to live up to his responsibilities. In an effort to make that happen, I would like to suspend sales to anyone who supported him. I will not sell to any of his "known buddies" or to anyone I suspect might be getting Helder to install their parts until Gates and I have been taken care of.

Nothing personal, you are good guys, with just one bad choice of friends.
Sergio, your brakes can go on my own car.
Aaron, please send me your email address, I will return what you have paid for your "box of goodies" that is sitting here.
Anyone else, if you are a buddy of this piece of work, or if you are thinking of getting him to install your parts, please DO NOT buy them from me!
Tim, I would really appreciate that list.

Thanks,
Ziggy

Hey Ziggy,
Sorry to hear this sh!t is going down like this...

I don't understand why i'm getting shafted, It's not my responsibility to make sure my friends pay you...

But Hey, If that's how you feel, and you prefer to not have me as a customer then ok fine, I'm sure you will agree I have never dicked you around.

My email address is blazer91_1@hotmail.com

+1 for Helder for not being like the rest of the pussies on this site, It's quite funny actually, When somebody needs something from him, that's the only time he ever hears from you. How many of you guys actually go over to his house to say hi to the family?His wife will even make you fracking dinner and a coffee.

which is always Awesome, Esp. that chili she makes!!! Haha,

90% of the time he will give you guys sh!t for free. He would probably even install it for you too.

I can think of numerous occasions of people dicking Helder around too but you dont see him crying about it on the board, He'll show up to your fuckin house and beat your face in!, And you guys know if he's not at work he's at home where he always is fixing your cars! while you guys cry about him on the board.
The guy will even pick up and drop off your cars at your house for you so you don't even have to take off your slippers.

People on this board are so quick to jump on the wagon holy sh!t!

Like when I forgot about a transaction i made with somebody for $20, all you guys automatically said i might be getting out of Dsm's like my buddy Helder, I know i was wrong but holy sh!t, Calm down.

Helder is laughing reading this! And he's right. It's a fuckin joke.

I expect to see some +1's for helder in this post, Not that it matters but seriously you learn who your true friends are though bullshit like this.

I know if somthing happened and I needed a place to stay for some reason Helder is somebody i could go to without a doubt.

You guys need to grow up, Move out of your mothers houses, come to the realization that you gotta pay to play and Dont lend money to people unless you willing to get fucked in the ass.

We've all been ripped off whether we deserve it or not.

Good luck with building your 140Mph cars without Helders help, Fuckin haters, Cant be happy for the guy. We gotta be jealous!!

Give Magnus or forced performance a ring, See how much they will charge you to do 1/4 of the work Helder has done for you guys. You guys will sh!t yourselves.

So stop talking sh!t about a guy that can barely defend himself online, You guys know he isn't the greatest at reading and writing but he can turn wrench better than all you guys.

If you guys have a problem with Helder, Go to his house, You all know where he lives.

I've said enough I think.

Hey Helder, if your reading this, I lost my cell phone and i'm waiting to get a new one... Give me a call at home whenever.
I'll Pm you my house number if you dont have it.

Goodnight Club Dsm Canada!

.

Hey, did you even read my first post, Aaron? I don't know, maybe I have the respect which Helder lacks. The whole purpose of this thread is to let everyone know what happened. I don't EXEPCT my money back, I just want everyone to know what kind of person Helder is. I'm just looking out for the Club DSM Canada community.

I DID go to his house. He lied to my face, and proved himself to have NO morals. Although I was tempted to "smash his face in" as you suggested, I managed to refrain and take a slightly higher road.

Because I chose to be in business and trusted people I thought were good guys does NOT, contrary to your opinion, obviously, entitle them to frack me in the ass..

And trust me, this has NOTHING to do with jealousy. Jealous of a guy who doesn't have enough brains to spell a 3 letter word? You GOTTA be kidding..

And as for his wrenching abilities..HALF his customers regret going to him. They all say how fast he is...then later when they figure out the sloppy workmanship, they all say "no wonder he is so fast..he is a butcher". I don't think guys like Reza would even TRUST him to touch their cars..They KNOW better.

You are right, it is not your responsibility to make sure your "friends" pay your debts. It was also not your responsibility to see that they got back on this board to screw people, but you did. If you want to be friends with a lowlife piece of work like him, I am HAPPY to NOT have you as a customer.

Your money will be on its way as soon as I figure out how much.

140mph is impressive but didn't the master tooner Kevin K tune his car on that 140MPH run and all his other high MPH runs ? I don't see anyone ever mention that part, so I would say a big credit should go to him too. Don't get me wrong, its easy to build a car, tuning is a whole new ball game Aaron, and from what I have seen, Kevin is his tuner.

I personally think its easy to go fast if you have all the right parts and knowledge to do so. Aaron, you know my car very well than most others, so you can take me as an example.

Also, about that $20 issue you had a few months back, you paid the guy back and you did the right thing. It wasn't about the money, it was about the principle. Don't think different of me being so blunt and rude about it. I'll tell any of my friends up front if I feel they are wrong about something, that's just my nature. No need to bitch about something you were at fault for man! You’re a good kid.

Aaron, I have always enjoyed yours and Helders company whevenever I hang out with you guys. I have no issues with you guys. Saying Helder is gonna smash someones face in, is not the image I have ever gotten from Helder, so I think you are making him look worse than he really is. Personally, I have given him stuff for free and he always treats me the same way. Heck, who the hell would pull off shifter cables from their car. If it wasn't for him I would not have ran 10's. There you go, a little positive note from a neutral mind. I gave him a transfer case the night before, a good example of what goes around comes around.

I know all you guys, but I don't need to take sides. All the good things on one side, you still can't outweigh the negative things, exactly what you are doing in your post. Bad dealings should be amended instead of outweighing them with other goodness.

You guys have made a lot of friends through DSM alone. If it were me I would have done whatever it was to clear up the issues, and still be a part of this community. Money doesn't come close to these other positives in life. All this sh!t don't change the fact that I am your friend. Just want to make clear whats right.

Also, when it comes to working on my car, I don't trust anyone at all, so it's not just Helder. No one turns a bolt on my car except me, and only ME!
I don't even let the Masta Toona tune my car man, even though everyone runs to him for tuning.
10's is all fuckin me brotha!

BWAHAHAHAHAAA

Well Aaron, there's 2 things I can do here.

1: Blast you for calling the members of this board "pussies", and back up Ziggy, yada yada yada.

2: Pull the mod stick out and get this thread cleaned up a bit.

Yeah, I'm going to do the second.

So, unless you have DIRECT dealings with this thread, please do not post in it. This is not a big dick contest, this is between Ziggy, Helder and a few other members.

I can see this getting out of hand real quick, and since Helder doesn't seem to be willing to respond, I don't see much more point to this thread.

I love the "off season".